journal
Articles and thoughts by Steve Green.
Great questions by Michael Horton
March 3rd, 2009
Does Christ come merely to improve our existence in Adam or to end it, sweeping us into his new creation?
Is Christianity all about spiritual and moral makeovers or about death and resurrection — radical judgment and radical grace? Is the Word of God a resource for what we have already decided we want and need, or is it God’s living and active criticism of our religion, morality, and pious experience? In other words, is the Bible God’s story, centering on Christ’s redeeming work, that rewrites our stories, or is it something we use to make our stories a little more exciting and interesting?
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Steve,
Those are some deep theological questions. Are they meant to be rhetorical, or are you looking to generate conversation?
Comment by David — March 4, 2009 @ 11:07 pm
Jesus is the answer for the world today! He is the Word of God made flesh (John 1:14). By His death and ressurection humanity is released from radical judgement and given radical grace. Therefore, the Bible is my “road-map” for navigating my earthly journey and experiencing life more abundantly thru the knowledge and assurance that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour. 2 Timothy 3:16 and 17 reads:
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuilding, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped forevery good work.”
In conclusion, knowing the Bible — God’s Word — is knowing our Saviour! The Great “I AM” is made know through the person of Jesus Christ. The words of Jesus read, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:6)
Blessings,
Mark La Flamme (aka. MC Stretch)
Comment by Mark La Flamme — March 5, 2009 @ 4:42 pm
Very profound and yet very simple truth that we tend to overlook..In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God…History (His story) needs no editing or man’s commentary.
The idea of narrative and story-telling in the life of the believer has become so overused…in Christendom and in the field of counseling, to say the least. The Christian martyr in some countries does not have this on his or her mind, I dare say.
It is so arrogant for us to be so caught up in having a story..that it becomes the focus, instead of the cross and His redeeming love and grace. Why do we feel that we have to have a reason for existing…other than to please God and to enjoy HIm forever?
I would choose His story to share any day …the gospel..not mine. I think that is where the power lies in the spoken Word of God.
Amen to these great questions by Brother Horton.
Would love to know the resource.
Natalie
Comment by Natalie Kleefisch — March 5, 2009 @ 9:33 pm
(I am not sure my other comment was sent..So excuse me if this is redundant.)
Amen to Brother Horton, Steve. Somehow in the way man is wired, we have to come to believe in the power of our stories..when it really must be His Word and the power of the cross.
The whole metaphor of stories and the idea of narratives in Christendom and in the field of counseling is so overused these days. Why can’t we as believers just embrace the simplicity of His cross and the understanding that without Him, we are nothing. I guess we have to feel that we are so important that God must need us to accomplish His work. How foolish of us…As Christians, we have the joy of serving a Master that died to give us all we need for life and happiness. This is the Mission… a life lived in obedience to Christ. IF a story is to be told may it be that he or she lived for Jesus.
Would enjoy knowing the citation for these thoughts by Brother Horton.
Natalie
Comment by Natalie Kleefisch — March 5, 2009 @ 9:48 pm
Thanks, Natalie. The quote is from his book: “Christless Christianity - The Alternative Gospel of the American Church.”
Steve
Comment by steve — March 6, 2009 @ 11:23 pm
Thanks for writing and yes, your thoughts are welcome!
Steve
Comment by steve — March 6, 2009 @ 11:27 pm
Thanks for the resource!
Blessings,
Natalie
Comment by Natalie Kleefisch — March 7, 2009 @ 12:18 pm
Ok Steve, I have been pondering this for a couple days now. The truth is our lives would lack hope and excitement without the bible. So it does make my life more exciting. I must say I am guilty of using the bible for enjoyment and entertainment. But the truth is it’s a God given path to redemption - and I firmly believe that is its purpose.
Comment by Jeff Hooper — March 7, 2009 @ 7:02 pm
Jeff,
I suppose what Michael is referring to is our tendency to create a god in our own image to fit how we have determined to live. Instead, the gospel radically confronts my rampant idolatry and self-centered existence, exalting Christ alone.
I think there is something to your idea about enjoyment. John Piper talks about Christian hedonism positively reminding that we are made for great joy. In answer to the first question in the Westminster confession, “What is the chief end of man?” the answer is given, “To glorify God and enjoy Him forever.” Piper changes that slightly to say that we glorify God by enjoying Him forever. Another Piper saying is that “God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him.”
So, while God is the source of true joy, there is always the danger of trying to draw happiness out of dry wells.
Comment by steve — March 7, 2009 @ 11:28 pm
steve
comment on michaels thoughts, is Christ real to me? If so am I living in the reality of his death on the cross? And in the power of the Holy Spirt living in me, as the result of his resurrection. And since this is all real to me.. then the reality of this is found in my own life and not that of others,, If Christ was not risen then our faith is in vain… The reality of Christ lives in me ,as I grow in the reality of the living word of God that is evident by what I say and do..
Comment by dave noth — March 8, 2009 @ 9:02 pm
Thanks, Dave
Comment by steve — March 8, 2009 @ 9:52 pm
Steve,
I deeply resonate with Michael’s questioning about human existence in relation to God’s redeeming purpose. I know that as I continue to preach through the book of Romans at my church, it is clear to me that God requires a radical transformation, the “new creation” Michael refers to. In that great letter, Paul teaches that human existence will result in one thing only: judgment! And it doesn’t matter if we are pagan or religious–all will be held accountable for our rebellion against God’s clearly revealed truth. The wonder of justification, then, is that God views me as acceptable to Him, not due to my goodness (I have none), but due completely to the righteousness imputed to me through the gracious work of Jesus Christ.
I was in California last week for a conference and stood at Ronald Reagan’s internment at his library in Simi Valley. Over his grave were the words “I know in my heart that man is good…” As much as I admired and loved President Reagan, he is wrong. Man is not good at all. In Adam we all died, but in the Second Adam we can live again! Praise God!
Comment by Brian McCrorie — March 12, 2009 @ 6:03 pm
Brian,
Thanks for your input. Very well said. We hear much about God saving us from our sin, but little about God saving us from Himself. In his book, ‘The Church’, Edmund Clowney writes, “We have seen how completely the message of the Bible centers in God the Savior. It is God who must come, because the human condition is hopeless, and God’s promises are so great. We need God, not because we need his help to solve our problems, but because God’s holy justice is our problem. Only he can make us right in his sight, and to do so he must bear our judgement, provide our righteousness, and transform our natures.”
Steve
Comment by steve — March 13, 2009 @ 9:38 am
God’s providence is precious! I took a ‘walk’ yesterday that started with a video of you singing at a GVB reunion, then on to your site here and this journal posting. I spent most of the rest of the day reading and considering some of what MH discusses in his book ‘Chistless Christianity’. It was almost as if he was listening in and writing in response to many conversations and meetings of late. Thanks be to God for your testimony (on Testimony: Profiles in Faith)which resonated with mine and nudged me to your site and the March 3rd entry. Blessings!
Comment by Tim Witten — March 14, 2009 @ 8:31 am
Thanks, Tim. That was quite a journey! While I’m thankful for the opportunity the Testimony video afforded, at this stage in life I have a different perspective on my own story. Some of it is reflected in the bio.
All the best to you,
Steve
Comment by steve — March 14, 2009 @ 9:23 pm
“I Repent, I offer no excuses” this lyric in one of your songs deeply, deeply moves me toward Jesus and urges me to leave behind the past…Thanks
Been a Christian nearly 20 years, your voice and spirit over the years has made me realize Jesus is purer, gentler, tenderer and sweeter than life’s harshness…praise him! and thankyou for maintaining a good testimony for those that have been inspired by your service.
Andrew
Comment by Andrew King — March 14, 2009 @ 9:59 pm
I too need the reminders of how merciful and tender our Savior is. The gospel is shocking good news and it seems every day I am surprised again by it. I’m glad the songs have been a source of encouragement and I quickly acknowledge that any traces of ‘good testimony’ are only the evidence of the Faithful One, who holds on to the likes of me.
Steve
Comment by steve — March 15, 2009 @ 12:57 pm
On the television program “Extreme Makeover,” homes are remodeled to meet the unique needs of the families who live in them. It is an attempt to improve the existence of the families who reside in them. While it’s hard to argue with the intent of the program, or the “good” it does to improve the lives of families, what it does not do is fundamentally recreate the family itself. The shell is the different - but the life inside of it is the same.
I use this example from our popular culture as a metaphor for the question posed. Does Christ come merely to perform an “extreme makeover” in our lives - to simply improve the “outer shell” of the lives we live, or does he come, through his death and resurrection, to build an entirely new creation (our lives) rooted in grace?
If Christ comes merely to improve our existence as we define it, then it can be argued there are other means to this end. I think we see this in our daily lives as people seek these “makeovers.” But we know Christ’s purpose is much deeper and radical. Our “temples” are destroyed and subsequently rebuilt. Yet, interestingly, as we are made anew and become new creations through Christ our existence fundamentally changes (and becomes more exciting) as we live out God’s life and story in our own lives. “I am crucified in Christ, therefore I no longer live - Jesus Christ now lives in me…”
Comment by Doug — March 16, 2009 @ 8:49 am
Thanks for your thoughts, Doug, and a good analogy with the tv program. Our perspective tends to be superficial and temporal. In the case of Jacob, after receiving the promises, things got worse. Yet in God’s sovereign design, he was both preparing and preserving. The greater goal was to humble Jacob and save him from worse stumbling in the future. Could it be the same with us?
Steve
Comment by steve — March 16, 2009 @ 10:19 am
Steve,
I believe the bottom line is that religion says “do” while Christ says “done.” Religion tends to be man made while Christianity is a relationship in Christ Jesus. Thank God for His love for me and His mercy.
Comment by Daniel Wade — March 16, 2009 @ 5:32 pm
Absolutely! Thanks,
Steve
Comment by steve — March 16, 2009 @ 8:03 pm
Steve,
Thanks for your response above. The question you posed regarding being humbled (in reference to God’s humbling of Jacob to save him from worse stumbling) has led me to new questions.
As we consider pride to be “original sin,” it seems that there is a need for God to humble us as he did Jacob to save us from worse stumbling in the future. That being said, I wonder if “humility” is an event or a process. Each time I experience humility I later reflect upon what has happened. I thank God and pray that I may be finally “there.” Yet, as the “world” seeps back into my life I find I am not “there” and the process repeats itself over and over again. I feel much like Paul when he said (paraphrased) that he does the things he knows he should not do.
Reflecting on the thoughts above I become quickly mindful of God’s grace. It does not seem as though grace is a “one shot” deal, but rather is abundantly available time and time again. Is humility then a God-designed process meant to leave a deeper imprint of His life in my own after each “sin-true repentance-grace episode?”
Is this then the process in life where one becomes less reliant on his or her own strength and more dependent upon God’s, to the “tipping point” of living John the Baptist’s words in John 3 when he says “He must become greater and I must become less?”
Is it fair to say that salvation is a “one time event” (Christ’s death as a sacrifice for our sins) while humility is ongoing?
Thanks for your thoughts and my apologies for so many questions.
Comment by Doug — March 21, 2009 @ 7:09 pm
I think you hit the nail on the head! We would prefer a one time “fix” for most every aspect of life but God has promised to perfect what He began in us. It’s interesting that even the means of grace, that is, the preaching of the Word and the sacraments are meant to be the ongoing way that God reminds us of the gospel and nourishes us by His Spirit.
Thanks for your comments.
Steve
Comment by steve — March 22, 2009 @ 9:13 pm
“In other words, is the Bible God’s story, centering on Christ’s redeeming work, that rewrites our stories, or is it something we use to make our stories a little more exciting and interesting?”
I have been a “performer” in the church realm for a few years now. Teaching Sunday school, teaching Bible studies, organizing activities, doing the overhead, etc. I must admit that God’s word has made my life a little more exciting and interesting because I could teach His word. The last 3 years epically I have been on a journey that has been shaking up every part of my life and as I was watching the GVB reunion DVD this weekend yours and Jon Mohr testimonies let me know that I am a chief sinner too and the same grace and “record” Jesus has extended to you two He has also given to me.
The honesty, humility, and love that came through on those DVD’s set me free and reminded me there is a old man that has to die.
Comment by Trina — March 23, 2009 @ 10:39 pm
Thanks, Trina. How refreshing to hear of how the gospel reorienting your life. Continued blessings to you.
Steve
Comment by steve — March 25, 2009 @ 10:09 pm
The gospel isn’t eloquent or of superior wisdom. It is simple. One doesn’t become forceful and persuasive in speech when preaching the cross. The gospel isn’t rhetoric, which is defined as the art of speaking. Rhetoric is the way of the world; rhetoric belongs to the supercilious, the high-brows, if you will. The prominent speakers who get $50,000.00 per speech are not telling of Jesus, they are puffed-up pleasers of men. If Paul didn’t come to Corinth with eloquence and super-wisdom, then no one should.
These verses support the idea of a simple gospel, which is easily understood and easily transmitted. Sure, there are deep things of the faith, but they come from simplicity. If your goal is to impress people, then you will be called a fool. If your goal is to communicate a simple gospel, which is only Christ crucified, then God will let you understand more and more. Only keep it simple.
The testimony of God is the preaching of the cross, whether in word or song. The testimony of God is not an excellence of speech or a super-wisdom that impresses. 1 Cor. 2:2 is a very important portion of Scripture. It is the reason that I continually harp on the cross. Paul wanted to convert the Corinthians…and how did he do it? What was his mode of operation? What did he resolve to do? What did Paul resolve to know? Read it in 1 Cor. 2:2. Read it and learn. Do this yourself, preacher, singer, saint. Paul determined, Paul decided, Paul desired to know nothing except the cross, and the Person on the cross. In so doing, Paul condemned all other teachings.
Paul condemned theology. What has theology produced? It has produced nothing but confusion, divisions, and denominations. What has theology produced in you? Only distractions from Jesus, the One who never fails. Jesus and Him crucified will never fail. Theology, which is the “eloquent and wise” study of God, will mire you down in a heap of endless, old, yellow-paged books about the opinions of man. If the church would simplify and tell of the cross, the converts would abound and the church signs would come down. We would have Baptists, Methodists, and Catholics no longer. We would only have Christians. No more sects or religious groups would confuse the issue. But mark my words, this will never happen. When Jesus comes, will He find the faith on the earth?
So I will try to reach you, my reader, instead of entire religious groups. And if you continue to attend your religion, attend in simplicity and love and maybe you will bring those around you into the church-invisible. I pray for the pastors, that they will get, not religion, but the gospel. Only then will revival happen on the largest scale.
Comment by Joe La Bianca — March 26, 2009 @ 2:25 pm
What is the GVB reunion DVD…sounds interesting?
I appreciate Trina’s sharing. I, too, feel that the Lord has been stretching me in being willing to offer grace more freely, while accepting my own imperfections, too.
Natalie
Comment by Natalie Kleefisch — March 26, 2009 @ 5:38 pm
Joe,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. To some of your ideas I would say a hearty ‘amen’. You are right in suggesting that much of the church has shied away from the simplicity of the gospel, the message of the cross. John Stott wrote a great book calling for a return to the centrality of the cross.
Where I would differ with you is in your opinion about theology. Historically, theology has included faithful knowing, thinking and acting. Bromiley wrote that, “theology is that which is thought and said about God. True theology is thus given by the Bible itself as the revelation of God in human terms.” While God’s Word is objective, our reflections of God’s Word are always human and thus relative and not infallible or inspired. Still, we must wrestle with the difficult questions of life, thinking through our faith. It is true that some theological environments have been sterile and cold. Others have specialized in questionable and secondary concerns. There are also those who think it’s all just subjective interpretation and no one really knows. These objections should remind us of our utter dependence upon God, the need to hold our views lightly and humbly, but at the same time, not deter us from the hard task of diligent study. Martin Luther stated, “The primary purpose of the truth of theology is not to divide, nor to unite, but to discover and protect the truth.”
Our faith is in Jesus, but when we talk about Him we are concerned with doctrine. Doctrine is not about ideas, but about realities, persons and events. As we study God’s grand story as revealed in the pages of Scripture, we are bound to reflect on God’s declaration of His character, will and ways. While my theological perspective must be open to correction, I still hold that theology is a disciplined study that seeks to proclaim the truth about Jesus, but also studies the proper response to who Jesus is.
Steve
Comment by steve — March 29, 2009 @ 9:05 am
Natalie,
It’s the Gaither Vocal Band Reunion video. Did you know that I was one of the original members of that group? Way back! It was a fun and inspiring day.
Steve
Comment by steve — March 29, 2009 @ 9:10 am
Dear Steve,
It’s amazing how a just few questions can spark such great discourse and discussion. Psalm 111:2 reads, “Great are the works of the LORD; they are pondered by all who delight in them.” However, in the end there is only ‘one thing’ that matters and that is God’s love for humanity (John 3:16). I’m reminded of the lyrics to a song by Paul Coleman that are very thought provoking.
THE ONE THING
Here I am
In a river of questions
Can I pour my heart out to a listening ear?
I see this life
Its valley’s and mountains
And I think of all the roads that brought me here
I’ve questioned my reasons
The life I’m living
I’ve questioned my ability
To judge wrong from right
I’ve questioned all the things that I’ve ever called certain
My race, my religion, my country, my mind
CHORUS
But the one thing I don’t question is you
You really love me like You say You do
You really love me like You say You do
Hold me
Hold me
I’ve questioned significance
Meaning and relevance
Does the work I’m doing really matter at all?
Well I’ve questioned my friendships
Alliance, dependence
Who will still be here when I fall?
Only one thing doesn’t change
Only one thing stays the same
All I know at the end of the day is Your love remains
…Amen!
Comment by Mark La Flamme — April 14, 2009 @ 9:25 am
Thanks, Mark!
Comment by steve — April 15, 2009 @ 7:55 pm